culture after auschwitz is garbage by horit herman peled   Tech discourse by itself misses the point. However a discourse on the means of production embedding context in cultural manifestations is quite different. It is remarkable and yet anticipated that the initiation of this communicative virtual community of human beings sharing the angst of technology initiated by the curators. After all THE GRAND SPECTACLE OF TERROR took place in Japan. It seems to me that a discussion on Theodor W. Adorno expression that all culture after Auschwitz is garbage as Tetsuo Kogawa quoted him is paramount as 9 eleven is a signifier for the horrors of modernism whether capitalist or socialist and the dialectics of technology which inflicted on us ruins and paranoia. Applying techno/conceptual criteria for the voting process is redundant. We have to move beyond the fixation of an art object in a gallery into tactical media and the meaning of it via cyber tools. horit herman peled Saturday, October 5th, 2002 at 00:35

Re^1: culture after auschwitz is garbage by Eric Dymond   Exactly Jane, and that is the modern idea of fitingness, to be always in motion and lose nothing. If it comes accross the wire, and is meant to be art, it is networked art. Friday, October 11st, 2002 at 22:33

Re^1: culture after auschwitz is garbage by sakana sato   However, Tech discourse is also involved with geometrical, economical and political issue behind that. I think it is an embodiment of the power structure which preselects the audience whether the author like it or not. Even Broadband era opened nowadays, such a division seemed to be widening more. It sounds to me that the Internet is opened for everybody if they afford it. It doesn't mean an accusation of the situation necessarily, but as reviewing all works, (I was lucky in that sense.) I felt pieces, dealt with no critical point of such a power structure, are like ghosts of the garbage what Adorno meant to be. Saturday, October 5th, 2002 at 10:45

critical edge by horit herman peled   sakana, you are right cutural works with no critical edge are gargbage in space but one must have a point of view in order to have a critical edge Horit Saturday, October 5th, 2002 at 12:37

Re^1: culture after auschwitz is garbage by philip wood   a friend of mine in the parisian ghetto is a painter born and raised in auschwitz... human atrocities happened before and after auschwitz... big atrocities get media coverage and historic significance a zillion more personal atrocities are ignored... people are generally opportunistic and irresponsible and lazy and survive within sociological peer group situations that don't have any concern for ethics or aesthetics and any attempts to address these smaller issues is just regarded as whining... 9.11 was a big global signifier that related to my smaller personal issues... where I live in the parisian ghetto the arab kids spontaneously celebrated in the streets... people I sometimes work for knew people in the WTC... I can't really identify with the people where I live or the people I work for... as media images the planes and the twin towers were amazingly strong and "modern"... Saturday, October 5th, 2002 at 05:32

Re^2: culture after auschwitz is garbage by Ansgard Thomson   sorry someone called you a racist ........... the statement that culture after auschwitz is garbage could be interpreted also as racist ,so far the image of superman could be cultural garbage as such. Ican identify you living in paris ,because I lived there after the war as a german who was born east of the line that was turned over to poland .the artists at the time tried to understand what had happen to our artistic heritage . Andre Malraux wrote the famous book "THE MUSEE IMGAGINAIRE"............... AS ARTISTS WE LIVE A LONELY LIVE AND DO DISCRIMINATE AGAINST INVASIONS FROM SOURSES THAT DOES NOT INSPIRE US TO CREAT. anyway I got your message of media overload we have to discriminate to find the truth or the truth has us Saturday, October 5th, 2002 at 11:42

Re^2: culture after auschwitz is garbage by horit herman peled   dear philip, i'm really sorry but your attitudes toward human beings are racist! Horit Saturday, October 5th, 2002 at 07:17

Re^3: culture after auschwitz is garbage by philip wood ( 80.9.26.180 )   I am of mixed race and I believe my attitudes are anything but racist in any negative sense of the term even if my observations and experiences of the processes of human beings are negative... I don't believe that despair of "human beings" can be regarded as racist as it does not seek to exclude or exploit or abuse any "race"... I will be happy to provide examples of what I regard as racist if you wish to discuss this particular aspect of human behaviour... Sunday, October 6th, 2002 at 15:10

Re^4: culture after auschwitz is garbage by horit herman peled   Dear Philip "...people are generally opportunistic and irresponsible and lazy and survive within sociological peer group situations that don't have any concern for ethics or aesthetics ..." this is a quote from your message it does not matter who you are mixed, pink, or blue one can always be a racist. you generelize,human being... which is the basic character of racist notions and it is very dangerous Horit Sunday, October 6th, 2002 at 23:55

Re^5: culture after auschwitz is garbage by philip wood   dear horit, I offered a generalised observation that does not cover specific exceptions which may occur in exceptional instances... I am not sure what point you wish to make...? to call me a racist for making a misanthropic statement would seem incoherent and irrational or just lazy... you do not allow for generalisations...? in that case I think you should apply specifics and then I will return with my specific observations and you can accuse me accordingly... my original post was intended to show that in this complex world I did not identify with tribal loops... as you say in your profile quote "in but not of" would reflect my experience exactly both as a "european" and more locally in the quartier where I have lived for the last 12 years... from my perspective your attitudes are dangerously wrong and it is a valid and useful generalisation to see human beings as opportunistic and irresponsible and lazy and that racism and other related issues stem from these qualities which are not conducive to "the freedom and dignity of all human beings"... phil Monday, October 7th, 2002 at 05:30

Re^6: culture after auschwitz is garbage by horit herman peled   dear philip, if their is a category of lazy people who are those that are not lazy? i guess you don't think that their are objective conditions in the saga of human history, and if so their could not be a critial expression to reflect 911. horit Monday, October 7th, 2002 at 12:20

Re^7: culture after auschwitz is garbage by philip wood   objectivity depends on the criteria applied... I believe the israeli v palestinian dilemma is not a racist issue but rather a territorial one which is confused because of religious issues aswell... I think people should try to apply "humane" laws and that we should try to adhere to them in the absence of "justice" we make it up as we go along and live with our own consciences... I know that racism is an ever present prejudice amongst many others I would guess that if it did not have a desirable effect then those who practise it more or less systematically would probably be less inclined to do so... "the visible is the manifestation of the invisible" eliphas levi Monday, October 7th, 2002 at 16:32